By Brian Wheeler Political reporter, BBC Scotlandshire News

Retired people should be encouraged to do community work such as caring for the "very old" or face losing some of their pension, a peer has suggested.

Lord Bichard, a former benefits chief, said "imaginative" ideas were needed to meet the cost of an ageing society.

And although such a move might be controversial, it would stop older people being a "burden on the state".

"Are there ways in which we could use incentives to encourage older people, if not to be in full time work, to be making a contribution?," he asked the rest of the committee.

"It is quite possible, for example, to envisage a world where civil society is making a greater contribution to the care of the very old, and older people who are not very old could be making a useful contribution to civil society in that respect, if they were given some incentive or some recognition for doing so."

The 65-year-old crossbench peer, who has taken on a number of roles including the vice presidency of the Local Government Association and the chairmanship of a national after-school film club since retiring from the civil service in 2001, suggested the government should use the pensions system to "incentivise" retired people.

"We are now prepared to say to people who are not looking for work, if you don't look for work you don't get benefits, so if you are old and you are not contributing in some way or another maybe there is some penalty attached to that."

He asked: "Are we using all of the incentives at our disposal to encourage older people not just to be a negative burden on the state but actually be a positive part of society?"

Asked about his proposal after the meeting, Lord Bichard  acknowledged it would be difficult for politicians to sell to the public, but added: "So was tuition fees."

Prof James Sefton, of Imperial College, London, a former adviser to the Treasury, told the committee young people were effectively subsidising the older generation - and he could not understand why they were not protesting about it.

"I think they should be angry. I think the deal they are getting is poor," he told the peers.

"There are a lot of transfers going on within the system, from the young towards the old and I think awareness of it is very poor and I think eventually it will come out."

He said research he was carrying out at Imperial College, with Dr David McCarthy, suggested "the current generation are very heavy contributors to the public purse, whereas previous generations have benefited from the public purse".

Meanwhile, Labour's Ian Davidson MP, chairchoob of the Scottish Affairs committee on Slimy Conservative & Unionist Morons; Betraying, Attacking and Gagging Scots, whined:

"So, Lord Bitchslap thinks pensioners ur a 'burden on the state', dis he? Well, you want tae take him serious 'cause if anybuddy kens aboot bein a burden on the f*cking state it's auld Die Hard.

"The c*nt retired at 54 oan a full civil service pension an a huge payaff tae tap it aff, then they gied him a load ay wee pretendy wan-day-a-month joabs wi big fat salaries attached tae each wan.

"Noo he's goat a seat in the Hoose ay Lords. Three hunner ay yer English pounds a day fur huvvin' a wee kip efter a guid lunch, fur f*ck's sake.

"The bastirt's less f*ckin' use than a Govan health club but he's still coinin' it in big style at oor f*ckin' expense.

"Mind you, thon's f*ckin' impressive trawffin', if ye ask me. Ah'm haudin' oot fur a bit mair ay that English gold masel, if ah dae a good enough joab ay screwin' up ma ain country, an that. Ka-ching!"

King of the now defunct Scottish Liberal Democ-rats oor Wullie Rennie insinuated: "So we're all goin' to be forced to work till we drop deid, are we? That's not why I became a liberal Democ-rat, let me tell you! Oh, it's policy? OK, that's different then," adding "but hey, whit can you do, eh?"

Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont was too busy working on her own retirement plan to comment.

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